What the heck do I do?

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What the heck do I do?

Postby maefly on Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:47 pm

My aunt just called me. I haven't been out to see my horses in a month as it's been 20 to 30 below zero for the last 3 weeks. My aunt told me my mare is bagging up and her belly is getting huge and all lopsided. In short she is in foal.

The only stallion she was exposed to was HER OWN colt last winter. The second he started showing stud like tendencies last march he was moved to my aunt's place away from all the mares. The only mares in the herd that did not come into heat were preg checked as not in foal. Keila came into heat all summer so I assumed she was okay. Now it's looking like it was false heat, every month, all summer long.

I really do not need another horse. Especially an inbred one. She would more than likely be due in a month or so, but there's really no way of knowing.

The kicker....

Keila has cushings. My aunt has raised lippit morgans for years and she is insisting that Keila get some kind of grain as she is so close to foaling. I talked with an equine nutritionist tonight actually before I found all this out. I was asking him what I can do to help my mare get more energy without having her founder, as I'm planning on showing my mare pretty heavily this summer over fences and reining so she'll need tons of energy. He said there is a product from nutrena called safe that has no corn and is supposed to be good for cushings horses. He said all the energy comes from fats, not carbs.

Does anyone have any knowledge about this type of feed? Or about what I should watch out for when she foals? Her last colt was supposed to be the last. He is my replacement for her and a good show prospect. I so do not need another horse, but it looks like I'll be getting one.

I want to do what's best for both her and the foal. If it comes down to it I choose the mare over the foal. I've had Keila for 16 years, there's no way I'm going to do anything to jepordize her health.

I'm so angry that I just don't know what to do. How many of you have heard of an 8 month old colt knocking up a mare!
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Postby myhorsefaith on Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:04 pm

OMG, i feel for you!
I have no idea what to do regarding the preggers thing. :( If it were me i'd call my vet(s) and weigh my options.

Regarding the nutrena feed, if it is safechoice, it still has a fairly high NSC count, and i wouldnt count on it to be "safe". What other brands of feeds do you have access to?
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Postby carolyn on Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:17 pm

yes, I had a very young colt (gelded at a yr old) that bred two mares. boy what a surprise when I came home from Alaska in 1999.
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Postby maefly on Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:21 pm

We don't have a ton of choice on pre-bagged feeds. We do have a couple places that custom mix for you. I'm just not sure what I should have mixed for a preggo cushings mare. I do have the guys number that I talked to tonight. I'll probably call him tomorrow right after I talk with my vet.

On a side note my aunt told me that my mare is shedding out in perfectly round circles too. I'm not sure if it's a side effect of the implants she had put in for her cushings, or the pregnancy, or a combination of the two. The vet said she shouldn't start shedding early, but he didn't say that it wasn't possible either. My aunt said it was weird to her because it was happening in perfect circles. My first stop after work tomorrow is at my aunt's to have my horse in front of me when I call my vet. Then it's time to go to the feed store. If it's still open, otherwise I'll call then first thing tuesday to have my feed mixed and ready for when I get out of work tuesday. Then it's time to call my best friend in vet school so she can ask her professors opinions. My aunt is changing pastures around so my mare can be stalled at night. She doesn't have any pigs due to farrow so she'll have the carema on Keila once she gets close.

I really wish I could have caught this early enough to terminate it. I'm terrified that I'm going to get a weird freakish crazy foal. My aunt did say that sometimes a whoops like this turns out to be good, but I'm way scared. I barely have time for the three I have already!

Thank god my aunt is awesome and will let me keep my horses there no matter how many I end up with.
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Postby mkgbuegel on Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:29 pm

Hmmmm, are those perfectly round circles, about 1 to 2 " in diameter and located along the top of her back & butt, or on her neck. Before they shed out those perfect little cirlces, does it feel like a clump of sticky fur.

This year, we had several horses come in that appeared to be carrying a strange strain of ring worm. Not terribly contagious to other horses, not contagious to people ( or I would be covered from head to toe) and fairly long lasting about 4 to 5 weeks. I've never seen a strain like this before. Several other people in our county have reported the same thing. We did take in 2 rescues in the last 6 months, one from the Wa. feedlot. She showed the funny little circles first. 3 other horses came up with the same thing a few weeks later.

Our vet had never seen anything quite like it.
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Postby cutiepiepmu on Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:57 am

Sorry to hear about your situation - With a Full cushings horse - Nutrena safe choice is OK - not my favorite however because it does still have molasses in it. I recommend SafeChoice all the time for IR horses or horses in general - BUT - With a full blow cushings horse, it still has too much sugar - if they need extra caloric value, I ALWAYs suggest soaked, rinsed till clean, beet pulp. It is the Lowest NSC type feed you really can do as long as it is molasses free. I think that feeding a good quality multi-vitamin/mineral along with this is really important. There are some you can pick from easily - Accel Lifetime, GrandMeadows Grand-Vite, Horseguard(my choice), Platium Performance.

There are alot of recent findings showing that the addition of ANY sugar - even from carrots or apples - to a cushings horse's diet can cause big problems. Also - has been a few recent studies showing that the addition of higher fats has some side effects with these horses as well.
If you are able to see your mare daily or if your aunt can soak and rinse to clear beet pulp - that is by far, the best option. If that is NOT an option - there are a few things you can do.

1- ADM makes a product called ADM Gro-Strong Ultra-Fiber pelleted feed. It is a forage first approach that is a great option and can be ordered direct from ADM - so no need to worry about a feed store. www.admani.com - Ii have started using this product a month ago and have been VERY impressed with it. I am ordering 10 bags at a time from ADM and it is delivered right to my door :)

2 - Rather than a "grain" feed a good quality low NSC grass hay pellet - NO ALFALFA. Alfalfa can cause alot of problems for Cushings horses. With this, you need to again make sure you are feeding a very good quality vitamin/mineral supplement.

3 - I strongly suggest purchasing the ADM Grostrong Precise mineral block to put out in the pasture area with your kids. Great block which actually does something - unlike regular salt blocks which are a joke.

Hope this helps. I have seen youngsters as young as 6 months breed a mare(luckily not my own horses!!) I hope the baby is normal and healthy!!

Take care,
Sara
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Postby cat_67 on Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:17 pm

Well, Cedar County Queen on the SAFE site is the result of a father-daughter mating and while she isn't pretty, she isn't a freak either, and it sounds like she is reasonably athletic.

However, I have to say that the first thing I'd do is call the vet as you may have a false pregnancy on your hands. Old broodies do WEIRD things. I have seen it before.
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Postby maefly on Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:09 pm

Well I've talked with the nutritionest, and got a vet appointment scheduled for tomorrow morning.

Based on what I saw Monday night she definately is pregnant. She's carrying really low. Her belly is actually pointed. My aunt was right when she told me that she was too lopsided to be just fat.

I took a good look at the shedding too. It looks like the implants are causing her to shed out early, the vet agreed that that was probably it too. I didn't see any circles like my aunt saw because it was so warm and snowing. Keila was covered with a wet snow/icy mixture. When I went to brush it off with a stiff brush it was just like spring time in the barn. She is definately shedding.

We'll see what Doc Mouser says in the morning. So far my plan is to brush Keila as little as possible so she can keep her winter coat. If she loses too much of her coat I'll be blanketing her. I really don't want to keep her blanketed though. I'll have nightmares of her foaling and getting tangled in the blanket, or her having the foal and it getting tangled in the blanket when it tries to nurse. I've got a good winter blanket that fits her as well as a foal blanket so they're available if I need them. My aunt is going to put her in the barn at night, and when she gets closer if the weather's bad she'll spend the day in the indoor.

So far it looks like the late fees aren't going to kill me so I'll get a stallion report filed, and if the foal doesn't look too bad I'll get it registered. Then hopefully it'll have a good chance of finding a good home. Any way you look at it I'm going to have my colt collected and then gelded. It'll be easier to show him, and if he gets up to where I want him I'll have a few very exclusive breedings. I really don't want any more accidental breedings, but I also can't lose the bloodlines I've got. Keila is the only producing offspring of a 7 time world champion. Her babies are the only ones that will carry on the MLM Royal Accent bloodline.

At least now I'm past the freak out stage and am able to plan out what to do. Hopefully she'll foal soon so I can get her in good shape for the big show in June. Keep your fingers crossed for a filly. I might already have a buyer if it's a filly.
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Postby sara.ray on Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:17 pm

Sara,

Do u know how to post pictures of her?If so, will you please post them for us?
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Postby cutiepiepmu on Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:02 pm

Not sure if that was to me - She isn't my horse :) But, I can post if you can email them to me at cutiepiepmu@yahoo.com :

Sara in WA
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Postby maefly on Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:03 am

Good news after the vet visit!

NO BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The belly is really weird. I've never seen a horse with such lumpy fat before. We figured out why she was bagging up too. My aunt has a foal already and Keila is a baby thief. If she sees a baby she bags up so she can be ready to nurse it when she steals it.

Keila is a normally very round horse. I've noticed too since she was diagnosed that she has a really hard time keeping her muscle tone, and she always looks round no matter how hard I work her. Here's some pics of her last summer when she was in good shape, this is how she normally looks. She does have the remnants of a baby belly in these pics, her colt is a coming 2 year old now and she took forever to lose her belly. I was riding the snot out of her in drill team practices and local shows last year. She was ridden hard at least 3 times a week, but sometimes as many as 5 times a week. I've been slacking this winter, but after all this we're going to get out even if it's cold and dark after work!

Image

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One of her this winter:
Image

I haven't taken any pics of her lately. It's been so darn cold that my digital will freeze up before I can even get her out of the pasture.

I'm so happy that I don't have to plan for another horse!

It's looking like Keila may get to nurse one this summer anyway. My aunt has a horse that she's afraid won't let her foal nurse once it's born. She's been trying all last summer and this winter to let her touch her bag. This mare is really weird. It took her 4 months to get her halter broke as a weanling. When she decides NO it takes forever to change her mind to yes, or even maybe. Why she bred her I don't know. The mare is well built and very well bred, but I'd have made sure she was okay with touching her bag before breeding her. As long as my aunt can get colostrum into the foal we'll let Keila nurse it. My aunt is really lucky that Keila is there. She also lucky that I'll work a ton with the foal too. I won't change Keila's work/show schedule just because of a foal.

I'm so thrilled that she's not pregnant!
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Postby cat_67 on Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:39 am

The belly is really weird. I've never seen a horse with such lumpy fat before. We figured out why she was bagging up too. My aunt has a foal already and Keila is a baby thief. If she sees a baby she bags up so she can be ready to nurse it when she steals it.


Yup, just what I said...old broodies do WEIRD things!
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